fandomtownies | Civics: The Bill of Rights, The Community Center, Wednesday Evening

"Four amendments left, and only two weeks," Alex said, setting her cup of tea down on her desk. "Three of them are largely procedural, so they're going to be saved for next week. This week, we're tackling the big one, even if it doesn't look like much of a big one."

She gestured to the board, which had the following written on it.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

"Looks can be deceiving," she said. "It sounds simple, but it isn't. As you can probably tell, first off, the issue is that it's highly subjective. What counts as excessive? What counts as cruel? Don't ask a lawyer; we live to argue this stuff."

She flashed a quick smile before continuing.

"Seriously, though. This amendment argues for human dignity. You can fine someone, or put them in jail, but you can't whip them, or leave them in stocks for the townspeople to throw vegetables at. Or torture them for information."

Yet another week where she would not be mentioning Guantanamo, then.

"Certain things are eliminated right off the bat, such as being drawn and quartered, or burned at the stake. Others, such as life in prison, depend highly on context. Placing someone in prison for life is not cruel and unusual punishment for murder. It is cruel and unusual punishment for petty theft. Proportionality is important."

She lifted her shoulders. "Whether or not cruel and unusual punishment should outlaw the death penalty depends on the person you're speaking to. The high court has gone back and forth on the issue. Currently, capital punishment is legal in several states, so long as it is performed humanely -- a lethal injection, the gas chamber, the electric chair. Painless and quick."

Another sip of tea. "So," she said. "Let's talk cruelty. And unusual punishments."

(OOC: Warning: Discussion will cover cruel and unusual punishment, possibly torture (in what will probably be an abstract way), as well as the ethics behind and methods of the death penalty. This warning is here in case anybody might want a heads-up.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Cruelly.

Emma Frost

There are snacks. There are other adults to chat with. Good times.

What would you count as cruel or unusual punishment? What would you not count as cruel or unusual punishment? To what extent do you think a government should limit itself in its power over its citizens? Does psychological torture count as torture? Sleep deprivation? Extreme interrogation? Does your answer change if the subjects are no longer citizens?

If capital punishment is administered humanely, is that cruel and unusual punishment? Is it ever right for the State to take a life? If someone is wrongly convicted, and executed, has the State committed murder? What methods of execution can be considered humane, all things considered? And what precautions can be exercised to ensure, to the best of the State's ability, that those executed are guilty?

Anything else not covered above.

She's here. And hoping this week's topic won't be upsetting to Jack.

Look! It's not late!

I should not be this proud of myself for that one.

Civics: The Bill of Rights, The Community Center, Wednesday Evening

Sign In - CIV06

Re: Sign In - CIV06

Arrive and Mingle - CIV06

Discussion #1 - How Cruel? How Unusual? - CIV06

Discussion #2 - Capital Punishment - CIV06

Discussion #3 - General Discussion - CIV06

Talk to Alex - CIV06

OOC - CIV06