fandomtownies | Civics: The Bill of Rights, Community Center, Wednesday Evening

As usual, there were snacks along the long wall, as well as drinks. (Not alcoholic drinks. Alex had nothing against liquor, but it seemed a little vulgar to serve those kind of drinks while teaching.)

"Welcome back," Alex said. "As promised, we have three amendments to get to, so let's get right to them. They're largely procedural. So we'll start with the seventh."

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

"If this sounds familiar," Alex continued, "then good, you've been paying attention. The specifics in this case refer to civil cases, where parties sue one another, rather than criminal cases. It goes on to add that juries decide facts, and judges decide laws. If the framers by this point sound a bit paranoid about judges, they had good reason. In the society they left, judges existed to impose the will of the King."

It was an oversimplification, but she had three amendments to get to today, so she didn't have time for the nuances of the English court system in the late 1700s.

"We're skipping slightly, to get to the tenth," she said.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

"It ends more dramatically, but not for our purposes. They're limiting their own power, which is good. They're also allowing the individual states some liberty. How much is an issue that caused a great deal of growing pains in the country over the past two hundred years. The states aren't independent countries -- we're all part of one united country. But states can have their own laws, so long as we're all under the same umbrella of Federal laws. It gets confusing, but for the most part, it works. When it doesn't ... that's another class entirely. And now, to the last amendment."

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

"This is the ninth," she continued, "and as wonderful as the first is, the ninth is also one of my favorites. They were smart enough to leave a loophole. They could tell that this document could be used in the wrong way -- that people might take this list exclusively. They listed certain rights because they were so important they absolutely couldn't finish the Constitution without them. And they were worried that people would then turn around and say that, clearly, anything that didn't make the cut didn't count. So they put in big letters, just because we left it out doesn't mean the people don't have that right."

She shrugged. "Does it stop people? No. Human nature is what it is. But they tried. That's what the bill of rights was. A lot of people leaving an imperfect government, creating a brand-new imperfect government, and creating a list of rights right off the bat that they thought could protect their citizens' rights and liberties. They did the best they could. And that's what this class has been about. Any questions?"

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

GONE WILD.

Emma Frost

Jack Priest

Snack, talk, as you do.

What kind of bumps can you foresee, in a society that gives states free reign so long as its rules do not conflict with federal ones? What sorts of issues should be decided on the state level, or the federal one, or the local one? Should the federal government ever allow states to contradict federal law -- turn a blind eye, so to speak?

Is there ever a good way to leave loopholes in forward-looking documents? Could the founders have done a better job? Are there other rights you would have included in the Bill of Rights? Are there ones you would have excluded?

Do you think it succeeds as a document? Do you agree with what the founders were trying to do? Are there criticisms you have for the document -- a lack of clarity, or not leaving more direct concerns?

She's here.

"Nice class," Jack said, lingering after it ended. "Are you going to do it again in the second half of summer?"

"Thanks," Alex said. "I'm switching it up a little, the second time around. I thought I'd maybe cover the amendments that were proposed and failed. Just so anyone who liked this class could stay for Round 2."

"How many of them fail?" Jack wondered. "I saw something abotu one against burning the flag. That seems silly."

"I happen to agree," Alex said, shaking her head. "The First Amendment didn't have a clause that said 'unless you're burning a symbol of patriotism, because that kind of dissent is just wrong.' I'd have to say more fail than don't, since we have twenty-seven amendments after two hundred-plus years, but a lot of them never get off the ground. Some are silly, and some would have been a good idea if they had gained any traction."

"I would ask what the good ideas were, but that would be spoiling the class for myself," Jack observed. "It's all interesting, though. I like seeing how the country comes together, and what you keep and what you throw away."

"It's far from perfect," Alex said. "The people who started this experiment weren't heroes. Many of them owned slaves. But it's fascinating watching the slow arc of it. Justice, in the abstract, fighting against what society and people believe on the street level."

1 - I seriously dreamed that I woke up, posted class and went back to sleep. Subsequent times that I woke up, I went, "No, wait, it's cool, I already posted class" and went back to sleep. Ffffffffffffffffffffff.

2 - I realized halfway through posting the questions that Alex should have thought to mention important details like "these people didn't think EVERYONE should have rights, and some people didn't get any rights AT ALL" and expound on that, for the last class, but it was a little late at that point. So I apologize if the "yay founders" tone is a little third-grade-social-studies. Her POV is that the Bill is a good idea, even if the founders themselves weren't necessarily good people, and etc.

3 - Thanks for putting up with my insanity in posting, and letting Alex be all Yay Law.

4 - Holy crap,

heromaniac made me an Alex My Little Pony. Best EVAR.

Civics: The Bill of Rights, Community Center, Wednesday Evening

Sign In - CIV07

Re: Sign In - CIV07

Re: Sign In - CIV07

Arrive and Mingle - CIV07

Discussion #1 - States vs. Federal - CIV07

Discussion #2 - Unmentioned Rights and Loopholes - CIV07

Discussion #3 - General Discussion on the Bill as a Whole - CIV07

Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

Re: Talk to Alex - CIV07

OOC - CIV07